After John and Rhoda HERBERT moved to Birmingham from Warmington/Brailes with daughter Lizzy, they had another daughter FANNY HERBERT born 1864 in Birmingham.
b. 2nd November 1864, 19 Great Barr Street, Digbeth, Birmingham d. 24 Nov 1942, 6 Cordley Street, West Bromwich.
Fanny’s family relationships, facts, document/photo gallery in ANCESTRY –
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/23784401/person/1469047150/facts
FANNY HERBERT gave birth to FREDERICK RICHARD HERBERT in September 1882 when she was 17 and claimed that The Rev. Frederick Richard ANDREWS was the father. He denied this through two sets of court proceedings. She had moved with his family to Sheffield to work as a maid. He was around 36 years old with a wife and five children and was a relatively famous preacher.
In 2020 ROGER HERBERT, FANNY’s great grandson, discovered he had a DNA match with one of Rev. ANDREWS descendants…. He was the father all along! Read the full story here.
John Herbert moved with wife Rhoda and daughter Lizzy from Warmington, Warwickshire in the early 1860s to Birmingham and then on to West Bromwich. Fanny was born in Birmingham in 1864 and later children in West Bromwich. Their address in Birmingham (taken from Fanny’s birth certificate) was 19 Great Barr Street, Digbeth. They moved to West Bromwich before William Herbert’s birth in around 1868.
She gave birth to FREDERICK RICHARD HERBERT at 10 Mill Street, West Bromwich on 17th September. 1882 and on his Birth Certificate his Father’s name is “unknown”.
He was evidently brought up by his Grandparents, John and Rhoda, and may not have known that FANNY was his Mother. If he did, he never told anyone, and FRED’S children always referred to FANNY as Aunt FANNY. (His father now traced by DNA = The REV. FREDERICK RICHARD ANDREWS). Read full story here.
When he got married, he gave his Father’s name as JOHN HERBERT (deceased) but in fact JOHN was his Grandfather. On FRED’s Marriage Certificate to ELSIE BRIDGMAN in 1905, his occupation and that of his “Father” is given as Hay and Straw Dealer. They then lived at 164 Moor Street, West Bromwich.
FANNY spent most of her life as a Domestic Servant and Housekeeper. See Ancestry for further documentation and addresses. She left home in 1881 to work in Sheffield for the Rev. FREDERICK RICHARD ANDREWS, who, despite his evidence to the contrary on oath in court, was to be the father of her child!
LIZZIE HERBERT and FANNY once ran a shop in Bull Street, West Bromwich, financed by FRED. He also bought them a house in Cordley Street, Carters Green, West Bromwich, around 300 yards from Town Corn Mills, which Fred then ran with William Herbert. William was known as his brother, but was in fact his uncle.
LIZZIE died first and when FANNY died in 1949/50 FRED sold the house. On her death certificate – see Ancestry – the informant was Elsie (Bridgman) Herbert “Sister-in-law”, living at 5 Grange Road, West Bromwich. She was, of course, her daughter-in-law.
In the 1871 Census Fanny lived at 10 Mill Street, West Bromwich with her parents. In 1881, she was living in Sheffield with the ANDREWS family….. In the 1891 Census, Fred is referred to as “Grandson”. See censuses below. In the 1901 Census – see Ancestry – he is referred to as “Son”…..
| 1871 Census | at 10 Mill Street, West Bromwich | Age | |
| JOHN | Head | 33 | Labourer born Warmington |
| RHODA | Wife | 30 | Wife b. Brailes |
| LIZZIE | daughter | 8 | Scholar b. Warmington |
| FANNY | daughter | 6 | ” b. Birmingham |
| WILLIAM | son | 3 | son b. West Bromwich |
| CHARLES | SIMMS Visitor (Rhoda’s Brother) | 22 | Labourer (married) b. Brailes |
| 1881 Census | at 10 Mill Street, West Bromwich | ||
| JOHN | Head | 45 | General Labourer. b Warmington |
| WILLIAM | Son | 12 | Scholar b. West Bromwich |
| SUSAN | Daughter | 9 | “ |
| GEORGE | Son | 7 | “ |
| PHOEBE | Mother | 80 | b. Warmington |
| 1891 Census | at 10 Mill Street, West Bromwich | ||
| JOHN | Head | 54 | Straw Dealer b Warmington |
| RHODA | Wife | 50 | Dressmaker b. Brailes |
| GEORGE | Son | 17 | Gen Iron Caster b. West Bromwich |
| FREDERICK RICHARD | Grandson | 8 | Scholar b. West Bromwich |
| SUSAN | Daughter | 19 | Assistant Dressmaker b. West Bromwich |